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wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

topic posted Thu, January 5, 2006 - 2:29 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I have a 115 AC 60HX 20 RPM Reversible electric gear motor (Dayton 3M153).
It requires a “run” capacitor: 4MFD, 370 VAC, 50/60 HZ
I also have the right capacitor.

The motor has three wires.
YELLOW and GREY appear to be the reversible hot leads.
BLACK seems to be the ground.

The Capacitor has no designation of hot or neutral on its two terminals.

There is a schematic on the side of the motor

There is a large circle from which all three wires emanate.

There is a small circle with an ~ symbol inside (the AC power supply ?), from that small circle project two leads with solid arrow heads at each terminus.
One arrowhead appears to point directly at the center of an = symbol with leads projecting from the center of each parallel line (un-polarized capacitor). The other arrowhead points to the end of a BLACK wire with a solid Dot at the Black Wire’s end.

The YELLOW and GREY wires are shown running from the center of a circle where they are represented as coiled inside (the coil is magnetic load?). As they exit the circle they connect to opposite sides of the leads from the = symbol (the capacitor).

The BLACK wire also begins at the center of the circle but has no coil representation it simply exits the circle and terminated in a small solid Dot adjacent to one of the arrowheads that emanate from the circle with the ~ inside.

No clue what a solid Dot means when it confronts a solid Arrow. Usually the solid Dot means a solder or other connection. Usually the solid Arrow is some form of Anode or Diode. There are no anodes or diodes here.

I have an idea how to get this motor to run.

It has the capacitor with a hot lead going in and a three position switch to select which directional wire to drive. The YELLOW or GREY. The three positions are off / forward / reverse.
The BLACK wire is Ground.

Does that make sense
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

    Thu, January 5, 2006 - 6:38 PM
    I'm not sure what your question is, exactly?

    Are you asking about how to hook up the capacitor? If it is an unpolarized capacitor, then you don't have to worry about polarity when you hook it up. I sense you know that already, so I am not sure what you are asking.

    Is there any way you could put the schematic on a link for us to look at?
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

    Thu, January 5, 2006 - 8:38 PM
    Capacitor between ground and power coming into the switch. Two outputs from the switch to the two leads, third disconnected for off. I guess. No guarantees.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

      Fri, January 6, 2006 - 12:03 AM
      The schematic shows the capacitor going across yellow and grey, right? So put it there. Black to ground and outputs from the switch go to yellow and grey, which it is depends on the direction of rotation, and the other is powered through the capacitor, but with a phase delay.

      I think you also want caps from yellow to black and from grey to black as well, but those would be for noise reduction. The yellow to grey one is the one to make it go. Mind you, I know nothing about this.
    • Unsu...
       

      schematic

      Fri, January 6, 2006 - 12:14 AM
      I have uploaded to this tribe's photos my interpretation of cliff's schematic description.
  • Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

    Thu, January 5, 2006 - 11:07 PM
    no, it does not make sense. Is there any way you can take a digital photo of the wiring diagram, scan it, or draw a sketch of it and scan the sketch?

    you can post the image to picasa.google.com or some other image-sharing website.

    You can even 'paraphrase' the diagram and redraw it using ASCII text characters.

    anything diagrammatic is easier than understanding a written description of a picture.

    a picture is indeed worth a thousand words.


    but this might help

    (~) represents the AC power supply

    || (or = ) is a capacitor

    a circle with two arrows in it with what looks like a hinged flap wire touching one of the arrows may represent a SWITCH.

    see
    www.kpsec.freeuk.com/symbol.htm
    especially the section titled "switches"

    if nothing else, this glossary may let you described your diagram more accurately.


    other comments
    yes, an AC motor has no diodes involved. the arrows must represent switch contacts, relay contacts, or connectors.

    consider that the capacitor needs to be involved in the circuit whether the motor is wired for forward or reverse rotation, so its position in the circuit will be independent of the switch position.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

    Fri, January 6, 2006 - 7:15 AM
    I just uploaded the drawing from the side of the motor. It's exactly as XJ 's image was.

    I tried last night to run the thing in series.
    That is the Capacator with a hot going in one terminal and either the Yellow or Grey comming out the other wiht the Black to Neutral.
    The motor hummed (very softly) I could feel energy at the shaft with my fingers but couldn't get the thing to turn.
    It was almost as though the phases wouldn't shift.

    I know the run capacitor is supposed to shift the phases of AC so the windings will run out of phase with each other to get the core to turn.

    I wondered if maybe the Capacatator might have failed so I checked and Yipper it has plenty of juice in it SPARK - - ouch!!!. That'll be fun to leave in a drawer.


    Still Stumped.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

      Fri, January 6, 2006 - 8:55 AM
      Did you try with the capacitor between the yellow and grey terminals, and then apply the power to one and only one of those? Power goes in in phase on one side, then comes out of the capacitor phase shifted into the other terminal. Third terminal to ground.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

        Fri, January 6, 2006 - 10:09 AM
        Just uploaded a pix of the way I've tried it.
        It was what I described as making the thing hum but not perform.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

          Fri, January 6, 2006 - 10:23 AM
          Yeah that won't work at all - that's a high pass filter. Connect the capacitor between the yellow and gray wire. Connect power to yellow and ground to black. To reverse, connect power to gray and ground to black.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

            Fri, January 6, 2006 - 12:00 PM
            OK I'll give it a shot
            I'll Let ya know how it turns out.

            thanks
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: wiring a run Capacitor & reversable motor

              Sat, January 7, 2006 - 4:39 AM
              Way Cool XJ. Thanks !! That was the ticket.
              I have it switched to go in either direction.


              Now I gotta turn a little fitting on my lathe to fit the drive end & broach it to take the 1/2" square drive on my rotissiere spit. Then rig the whole thing in a metal housing and fit it to my Grill to drive my rotissiere.

              Yup all this work for nothing more glamorous than a rotissiere on my BBQ Grill. Except, I use it all the time and on holidays when company is comming over I'll have loads as heavy as 50 pounds on the rotissiere. It's the ultimate "set it and forget it" gadget.

              The original rotissiere motors were too damn wimpy - even with counterbalancing. I've burnt out two already. This was really odd as the damn grill is way expensive. But like so many things the little stuff gets the short end (rip and mitre fences on table saws are another example). The original factory motor for the rotissiere has a lovely chrome case but it's nothing more than old fashioned 110V-AC wall clock motor with gear reducer and a square drive in a oilite sintered bronze bushing. I may convert one of them to be my bushing and get yet still more torque by using a gear down.

              Thanks for the assist.


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