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We have well water and dislike the feel, cost, and waste involved in water softening. On the other hand, it's clear our water has enough iron to cake up our pipes, and we don't totally want to throw caution to the wind, but are looking for some alternatives. How did people used to deal with mineral buildup in their pipes in the old days? What do the Amish and grid-free people do? Any ideas and information would be great.
Thanks in advance.
Megan
Thanks in advance.
Megan
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 12:53 PMI had a two stage system installed. The first stage is a Zeolite filtration unit and the second stage is a magnesium calcate softener( the mineral neutralizes the acid in the water.
I have water that's loaded with Iron ( alas that means I can never make good whiskey) , and is acidic from a reaction in the soil between the nitrogen fertilizers that were dispersed on the agricultural soils for a century or so.
The Zeolite filter unit has to be recharged with a salt rince and I gotta use a product called Iron Out (it's mostly citric acid) to clean the iron out of the zeolite.
I switched the Mag Calcite out for Limestone which is less strong. And I like the water better that way.
I unplugged the Zeolite re-generator because I only really needed to regenerate the Zeolite like once a month.
Otherwise there's too much salt in the water.
The reason I got the system was the water was so hard and so acidic that it was dissolving the copper pipes at a rather rapid clip. -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 6:22 PMI'm looking for alternatives to regenerating/discharge systems, or anything complicated energy or expense-wise. Were you saying, Cliff, that these are improvements over the waste from regular units? If so, can you explain? -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 8:10 AM"waste from regular units"?
All zeolite systems re-generate and discharge the saline water. That's not a problem. The problem for me was the frequency of the regenerate cycle. The unit did it like twice a day which meant I always had lots of salt in the water. I plug it in once a month and I'm much happier. I add Iron-Out to the salt to get rid of iron build up.
There is a softener available that supposedly uses no salt BUT my softener uses no salt the filter is what uses the salt. The softener is passive, merely bubbling the acidic water through a limestone bed.
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Mon, April 13, 2009 - 10:13 PMThot we could get by without one but eight years of high calcium has clogged many spouts and finally clogged the toilets, too (the main jet into the bowl was totally caked; took a screwdriver and half an hour to restore flushing). Have since added a Culligan setup; not cheap but no more plumbing issues. -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 8:07 AMI hear you about the clogged pipes.
What about installing a 2-3 stage series of cartridge filters. Would that eliminate the pipe-clogging issues? -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 1:48 PMNot if the calcium is in solution. Dissolved minerals will flow through any mechanical filter.
The only ways I know to get 'em out are:
1.) Distillation
2.) Reverse osmosis
3.) De-ionization ( zeolite filtration with salt regeneration)
4.) kidney stones. Oops that gets 'em out too late.
As an aside one of the main causes of clogged pipes is MIXED METALS~!!
If you c have steel or steel with zink coated pipes in the same system as brass or copper you will get your pipes clogged so badly that eventually the water won't flow at all
The Galvanic action that arises from the combination of dissimilar metals and the minerals in water will cause metal molecules to sublime off from from one pipe type and settle on the other eventually creating a total blockage.
So you might think about whether you have dissimilar metals in your piping.
If you do - - I think you should get a second opinion on the water treatment, because you may not need a water treatment system at all. Just get rid if the steel pipes.
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 9:20 PMWhat he said: it might be metals. The first thing you need to do is to have your water tested so you know what it is you want to remove from it to make it palatable. Calcium was a problem for me and so I went with the Culligan system; not sure what the process is called but yes, there's sacrificial salt. I've had the system for a little over a month and I'd say we've used less than a bag (20 lbs?) of rock salt. Never heard of folks having trouble with salty water from the tap; is that possible? -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 9:03 AM***********Never heard of folks having trouble with salty water from the tap; is that possible? ***********
It was so bad with my system that I tasted salt in the water and when I added a splash to my $100.00 Scotch it ruined the booze.
Even my grand-daughter complained about the taste. That tore it~!! I went into the cellar an unplugged the Regen' unit. I plug it in about once a month to let it regenerate over a two day period
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 9:22 PMMegan asked about old-time traditional low-tech ways. Just as a historical footnote,...
One places a board or plate or sheet of glass or other flat surface at a 45 degree angle beneath a faucet running out at medium force, or a waterflow poured out of a vessel and allow the flow to splash on the flat surface. What flows down from the angled surface will be comparatively cleaner water. This can be collectedin a bowl for use. The impurities will have gone out to the side in the splash. This works as well to de-chlorinate domestic water. Something about the molecular physics of water in motion. And this method is practical for small quantities...
Just wanted to mention this for the sake of general information. -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 9:33 PM"I only drink rainwater and pure grain alcohol."
Just wanted to mention this for the sake of being a smartass. -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 9:07 AM***************** "I only drink rainwater and pure grain alcohol.**********
Doesn't rainwater have a "dusty dirty" taste?
Pure water can remain in a hyper solution in the upper atmosphere never freezing no matter the cold because it lacks the mote of contamination needed to get crystallization going. Then once dirt gets in the droplets they can freeze and fall either as rain or hail.
Which all goes to my theory that if you drink water that was in the sky you will be abducted by aliens and have one of those triangular chippy thingies put up your nose that lets them control your thoughts.
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 8:59 PMI knew it.
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 11:05 PMYou can quote me.... if you're so smart, then why ain't you rich, Mr Puppetface? -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 11:55 PMWho asaid I ain't rich?
The upside down ketchup bottle? That's all me, baby... my lucrative contribution to civilization
Now I fritter away my days wanking online. -
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Re: Is a water softener really necessary? Simpler alternatives?
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 8:19 AMSee sunshine girl in green pants... carries a harmonica sandwich. She is not wanker-bait.
We shall see who is rich, famous... onboard with the creative.
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